NewLook Stain with Urethane sealers any one been there?
I am looking at doing a polished concrete floor with Newlook stain wich I have never used but home owner likes the look. This is going into a large barn where tractors and 4wheelers and cars will be on. Thus needing to use Urethane to seal- Arizona Dimond Glaze 502. Anyone have any experance using Newlook stain with Urethanes?
Lindy, Thanks! I am not using Newlook for sure the Flexmar looks good.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't a water based stain just a pigment with water as the carrier? So how is it not compatible with urethanes and PAP's when the water based stain is completely dry?
Reactive acid stains and most stains/dyes containing acetones are formulated to penetrate/wet out into the substrate to a much greater extent and are compatible with application of protective coatings (including PAP's) ... however, watered down acrylic dye/stains that are topical have proven themselves to be highly prone to rapid delamintion/pealing up//off of PAP's (they are non-compatible for a number of reasons having to do with type of acrylic in formulation and type/size of pigmented particles that create a barrier that impeded PAPs from wetting out/penetrating/locking into the substrate itself). I have lost count of the number of contractors (assuming compatibility) who applied various companies PAP's over acrylic water based dyes (being the type that are more closely related to house paints) pealling off in sheets (becoming expensive drop clothes); therefore, it is not due to any one acrylic water based dye/stain or PAP companies' propriotary formualtions; it is a general problematic prone issue/concerns; so I advise all to steer clear of doing so.
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Lindy
Hi CAADTN,
Sounds like a fun project you're working on. I thought it would help if I jumped in and offered some clarification. I'm going to assume that when you mention the "Newlook stain" you're really refering to our ORIGINAL Solid Color Stain (SCS).
The SCS is a water-based polymer-modified concrete color stain that penetrates the surface of porous concrete and creates a completely opaque finish with a very tenacious mechanical bond. While it may be used on both interior and exterior projects, it is important that the concrete be thoroughly cleaned and porous enough to allow the stain to penetrate and bond with the substrate. Preparation is critical.
The SCS is best suited for porous substrates, which is not the case for polished concrete. It's difficult for the SCS to penetrate into the density of a polished slab. We recommend that the SCS be installed on concrete that has a Concrete Surface Profile of 1 (preferably 2) as defined by ICRI prep standards (see www.icri.org). If you use the SCS on a project like this where there is heavy to extreme wear and tear, you'll definitely want to seal it (my guess is your customer does not want you to come back every 6 months to 2 years to restain the concrete). You may also want to consider using our SmarColor, which is a single-component, water-based nano-acrylic stain--a very cool solution that may be better suited for this project. It is compatible with many sealers, including multi-component top coats.
It's important to emphasize the fact that the SCS is a polymer-modified stain; it's NOT an acrylic-based solution like our SmarColor, which leverages advanced nano-pigmentation technology.
I think Lindy makes a good point about sealers but I need to clarify so we're all on the same page: First, NewLook's water-based stains are compatible with many sealers. The SCS has over a 20 year track record but we have not tested ALL sealers with our stains. This is why we recommend you do a representative jobsite sample or contact us directly to discuss the suitability of alternative solutions. We have found, however, that some solvent-based sealers--particularly methyl methacrylates--are not compatible with water-based coatings like our SCS or Enhancers. They can cause water-based coatings to emulsify. Water-based urethanes have not proven to cause issues with the SCS, however. And aliphatic urethanes have also been used on our stains without creating an issue. Diamond Glaze 502 is a polyester/aliphatic urethane.
Second, Lindy is also correct about the need for a more durable sealer given the wear and tear that will occur on your project. Our Concrete Maintenance Sealer is a low-solids water-based acrylic sealer that does offer good abrasion and chemical resistance, but is probably not best for your project. Rather, we manufacture a number of other high-quality and durable top coat solutions that would actually be better suited for your project and I'd love to discuss those with you personally.
I hope your project works out for you regardless of what product you use. All of us here at NewLook genuinely appreciate your consideration. Please contact me directly at (801) 886-9495 if you have additional questions or need further clarification.
All the best,
Jacob Webb
NewLook International, Inc.
Newlook is a water based stain. Most water based stains are not compatible with urethanes or polyaspartic aliphatic polyureas (as acid based stains or other types of stain fomulations), so beware. I strongly suggest you contact NewLook directly, doing so by email so that you receive their answer in written form, as to whether or not you can apply a urethane over it (in many cases applying Aliphatic Urethanes or PAPs over water based stains and/or acrylic dyes will result in delaminating/pealing off of these types of sealers in sheets, taking the water based satins and/or acrylic dyes with them.
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IMO (based on 30 years in this business) unless the surface (with end use as you describe) is sealed with a high performance aliphatic urethane, or better yet maximum wear/abrasion resistant Polyaspartic Aliphatic Polyurea (PAP) it will not survive the harsh end use conditions it will be routinely subjected to. Note: you might want to consider Flexmar Coatings "Variegate" PAP instead of a water or solvent based stain and sealer ... apply 1 coat of Variegate that will give the surface a mottled/variegated look of a stain that penetrated/wets out/locks into the concrete (dry time about 1 hour), followed by 2nd coat of clear PAP (either high gloss or satin); 4-5 hours after 2nd coat can return to full service (will set up/cure out in temperatures of -30F). Furtheremore, surfaces that are subjected to vehicle traffic are also prone to what is referred to as hot tire peal up (over time you see the exact path that tires are rolling over) ... PAPs have a heat resistance of 350F (ergo: eliminate the potential for hot tire peal up); typical sealers are usually limited to 130-160F heat resistance (check the technical data sheets for sealers you are considering for heat resistance information, along with other physcial property feature/benefit comparisions).
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If you would like detailed information, or have any questions about Flexmar's PAPs give me a call or drop me an email message Lindy.Ausburne@gmail.com for my prompt response.
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Lindy A.