Do you think this is worth the money?
I had a patio poured about 6 days ago. Let me start by saying that the price was cheap, but I did visit his job sites and the quality was not bad (to my eye) so I went with it. I payed between $5 and $6 sq/ft for stamped concrete patio. Here are some pictures:
http://picasaweb.google.com/bstone2/Patio
Some of my concerns include:
- 3 days after the pour I found cracks around a post and the steps
- Today I have over 8 different spider cracks
- The slab seems very wavy. In some areas you you can feel yourself walking up and down
- I can see tool marks and honeycomb in some places
- The slope away from the house seems to be a little steep
- The pattern is very pronounced in some places and barely exists in others
The cracks concern me the most. There was no wire or re-bar, but fiber was in the mix.
I guess the adage that you get what you pay for applies.
However, is this job worth the money that I am being charged?
Should I be concerned about the cracks?
Is there anything that I can ask the contractor to do to fix some of the concerns above?
Thanks for your opinions.
Okay, I may have been a bit hasty in my judgement. I looked at the photo links (sorry I didn't see them before). It is evident that there are a lot of problems.
If a contractor is selling stamped concrete, then he should be able to deliver. It's not your fault if he bit off more than he could chew. Regardless if he charged $5 or $15, this job is pretty bad. Hopefully, this guy will realize he's not qualified for this type of work and will go back to plain gray concrete.
BTW, concrete will always crack around something poured into the slab, like your columns. There should have been cut joints there to make it crack where he wanted it to.
I don't know why you picked this guy over others, but if it was strictly price, the fault is partially yours. Good luck resolving it.
Thanks for the response. The contractor said he has been doing stamped concrete for over three years. If he did not mention that I would agree with what you said about getting his feet wet.
No rebar, No wire mess, No control joints, No isolation joints, BUT the concrete does have fiber.
The contractor gave a 3 year warranty against cracks. I questioned the warranty b/c the one thing I know about concrete is that it will crack (eventually). He agreed but still talked about the 3 year warranty and that if it did crack he would replace. That is why I am concerned to see cracks after a couple of days.
Here are a couple pics. More can be viewed at
http://picasaweb.google.com/bstone2/Patio
You did get what you paid for. Clients shop for the cheapest price and wonder why it comes out looking like this project. This job was lost and should be replaced. The 3 year warranty is a ploy by the installer to get paid.
Did you pay for the concrete? This stuff is labor intensive. I'm sure you got more than one estimate. Were you not concerned about the wide gap of pricing?
I know of installers that will do it for a bottle of wine, but they want paid up front first. (That's what I tell a customer if they bicker about my qoute) In fact, if I find out they are getting a dozen estimates, I just let them know I'm booked up and can't help them. There are too many clients out there that will pay for a good job. Good luck with your money saving patio.
gene
Anyone who gives ANY KIND of non-cracking guarantee AT ALL is a hack who knows nothing about concrete. It was a sure thing that the concrete would crack at the corners of those posts. Fiber is good for some things, but it does not prevent shrinkage cracking such as this. Whenever you go anywhere like a shopping mall, plaza, etc., look at the concrete around the brick columns. There will be either a joint or a crack or both at the columns. Concrete 101. There's no way your guy has been stamping for very long. In some of the photos, it even looks like the ashlar slate stamps are not fit together correctly. They only fit together one way, like a jigsaw puzzle.
If you haven't paid him, don't. Make him honor his guarantee, although I seriously doubt that he will.
Thank you Steve V and DCS Inc.
I understand your comments about finding the cheapest price possible, but we did not shop around for the cheapest price we could find. We were originally going to do regular concrete. This contractor was brought into our neighborhood by another neighbor and was hired by MANY of our neighbors. We called, he gave a price, neighbors seemed happy, the stamped looks looks better than regular concrete. We went with it. In fact I never did get another quote for stamped concrete.
He did want money up front and I have paid half the money to date. I figure the money I paid covers the cost of the concrete. Now the contractor wants the balance and I am hesitant based on the work. That is why I posted the message. I didn't think the quality was good, but I don't want to be that homeowner who is nit picky and never satisfied.
Hindsight is clearer and I should have done more homework before jumping in. The concrete did get away from him. It was him and a helper with a wheelbarrow. A slow combination (and bad one for me). However, I know they worked hard that day.
My base question is...
Do you think it is reasonable to withhold the balance based on the current quality of work? Based on the responses so far, it seems like the answer is yes.
Thanks!
Hope everyone is busy.
There is a couple of things that bother me about this post.
One, as the homeowner, you should have got 2 or 3 quotes - not 23 or 33!
Two, and I'll probably hear some crap about this one, but decorative concrete manufacturers and their distributors bare some blame.
We all know that there are some manufacturers and/or their distributors out there that hold free or $100 seminars.
But most (NOT ALL) of the distributors in my area that are selling stamps, color, etc to customers, know nothing at all about decorative concrete. "Come to my training seminar and you'll be stamping next weekend - It's Easy!!" Bad. Very Bad.
It eroding the price for quality work and promoting poor craftsmanship. In the very near term, this is bad for established installers. In the long term, MANUFACTURERS LISTEN UP "you reap what you sow"
bstone2:
No matter what you paid or how you obtained the pricing, this job sucks big time. It's up to you to accept it or not. I wouldn't even let the home owner see it before I tore it out.
Be a nice guy and give him his money and deal with it later with your pocket book, or tell him to do it right. (Let your other neighbors know also...)
The poor dude may only be busting his butt trying to please but anyway you look at it, your project is bad. it will crack, it will flake, do what you may...
..............................
Bill: I totally agree with your dissertation. Bring'em in with a free lunch, sell them on how easy it is, sell them a bunch of material. Push them out the door with no support....
I'm good buds with a couple of the main suppliers here in Indy. I'm also the distributor and training dude for elite crete systems for Indiana, Ohio and western parts of Kentucky.
It's a trip in comparison to my training to the "free, bring your cousins, uncles, neighbors sister. Of course we are talking overlay systems and not stamped concrete, but the same thing is going on in this field. The difference is, I am responsible for these guys, I make sure they don't fail. I'm on the phone with application problems and am constantly fielding questions in the field. This cuts down failures. This promotes a successful applicator. We do have a good support system. Ooops, I'm promoting, sorry.... it's my job.
gene dean
elitecreteindiana.com
You're right. You get what you pay for. $5 to $6 per square foot is dirt cheap, and my guess is the guy had little experience and gave you this price to get his feet wet in the business.
That said, the cracks are probably shrinkage cracks. Did the contractor cut crack control joints? Rebar, wire or fiber reinforcement would not have eliminated these cracks, but the joints should have determined where they occurred.
The slope is an issue that any competent concrete finisher should have well in hand. It should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 1/4 inch per foot, a bit more on deeply profiled patterns.
The texture being prevalent in some spots and almost nonexistent in others is an indicator that the concrete set up faster than the guy could stamp.
Photos would certainly help, but at $5 to $6 per square foot, I'd say no matter what it looks like you got your money's worth.